So, um, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you for coming back on for us.
Karen: Thank you for having me.
Dawn: So our topic today is talking about the possible new legislation that’s gonna come in over the next five to 10 years. Nothing set. Just to, um, put as a preamble before we get into it, nothing is set currently, but there’s, um, the beginnings of governmental bodies having a look at it. So, I wanted to chat with you, Karen, about the view of the practitioner. Obviously, you are in the industry currently, and you may or may not be affected by this new stuff.
How do you reckon the new Legislation could affect you and your Business? If it comes to pass.
Karen: For me, as someone who has invested long-term in what I do, I’ve been going for eight years. I’ve continuously trained most time. Again, there’s no legislation to say you have to do that; it’s just how I want to work. My clients know that I continuously train. Therefore, they keep reinvesting in me to do their treatments. So to me, my way of giving back to my clients is to continue to train, continue to train, continue to train. That’s within me to do so. I do know that other people aren’t that way inclined, and they will do one course since they see it as an investment in their career. It’s not something I agree with. So for me, I feel it if in any way the legislation affects me as far as I need to get further qualifications, that would be something I would do anyway because that’s what I do year to year annually.
I’m continuously updating what I know. I have the funds there if I need to if I need to make a big investment, which I feel is what’s gonna happen. Obviously, no one knows anything yet, but you certainly have hearsay along the lines of what will happen imminently. I think following lockdown, et cetera, it needs to happen as well. So, I think it’s gonna affect everyone in different ways. I think for myself because I’ve continuously invested; I don’t think it’s gonna be a massive hit for me. If I do need to reinvest and, you know, level up, so to speak, or do some continuous, um, education, that’s not a problem for me. Um, I think for many, it will be. And that’s what we’re talking about today. <laugh>.
Dawn: <laugh>, that’s fair enough. And I think it’s always reassuring to know that you’re always trying to make sure you’re on top of your training and making sure that you are at that, at the top on top. Of like everything. Which is really lovely to hear ’cause I know, like you were saying, like there are some people, unfortunately, out there that think that’s just one course is enough. And then they’re set completely when, you know, it’s really not the idea. And I think with any profession as well, you’re, you need to be constantly learning and training and doing little courses here and there to renew your knowledge, but also new stuff coming up.
Karen: Yeah, of course. Knew the doorbell or golf. Um, so yeah, I mean with regards, with regards to that, that’s, this is the thing. Whenever I’ve heard of any negative, um, between, you know, controversy, again, medic non-med, I work with medics and non-med, so it’s neither hit nor there. For me, I work with doctors, I work with nurses, so there’s never been that divide, but I believe it’s because of the amount of knowledge they know I have. So, for example, you know, they remain unnamed, but there are doctors that have done masterclasses for the aesthetic that I can achieve with my results. And that’s a huge accolade for me when there’s a medic coming to me to achieve the looks that I can achieve.
But then, on the flip side, you know, all I’ve ever heard expressed from that side is everyone needs to be educated to a certain level. And I a hundred per cent agree with that, and I think that, you know, you think nurses have to put in so many hours to continue what they do. So do doctors; they have to put in so many hours to continue what they do to continue to keep updating their knowledge, to update their knowledge on anatomy to learn more and more about different things. So for me, that’s what it’s always been about, is to be educated to one level, not have so, so many people that do continually invest and know what they’re doing and have this sea an absolute body and sea of humans that don’t have a clue. And sadly, there is that at the moment, and that’s why the regulation needs to come in.
Karen: So to go on with market trends and stuff, with my experience, I feel, I know when peaks and troughs are gonna happen. And I know to what level as well. So, for example, for date reasons we’re, we’re doing this in February. I always know that January and the first weeks of February are certainly quieter following the Christmas rush.
I also know that, actually, compared to normal years, what’s happening right now is not normal. I can, I can tell you that hands down ’cause I’ve been doing it for eight years. <laugh> So quieter. Yes, to this extent, a hundred per cent no. Now what this is forcing in the market, which you will see a lot of, I see a lot of, and it literally makes me cringe, is, you know, oh, we’re doing this package for 200 pounds, we’re doing a ml. And I had a massive rant on one of my lives the other day. I dunno, whether you saw it or not, but I had to get out there. We’re doing a ml for like 50 pounds. It’s like, what are you buying and putting in for that amount? And, and this is what, when I say we, I like to separate myself from these people that don’t really know a hundred percent what they’re doing.
Karen: This is what separates that off. So for me, it’s now no longer medic non-med. It’s educated, uneducated, from my size. We work with Dr. Radford, who’s an incredible doctor. And he comes, and we host him for his complications course. Because we are huge advocates of safe practice. And basically what we’re seeing is these people that are coming in, obviously, if they’re attending and wanting to upskill on their complications knowledge, that’s one side of it. We are never gonna say no to that. But what we are seeing is a vast sea of people, sadly, that don’t know what they’re doing. And that’s across the board that’s not medics non-med. Because what we have out there is we have all of these academies. I’m gonna say that loosely because they’re banging out courses for hundreds of pounds rather than thousands of pounds.
And they’re probably not the right qualification. They’re probably not even insurable, but ’cause people think they’re getting a bargain, they’ll go on these courses and sadly invest their money. And we’re, we’re getting it all the time. I can’t even get hold of my trainer. I hear that so much. I can’t get a hold of my trainer to ask that question. You know, they’ve literally taken the money and run, and that’s medics and non-med being hit with that ’cause they think they’ve seen someone with incredible social media who’ve done amazing training, you know, and they’ve got a celeb on there saying the training was amazing. Doesn’t mean anything. It, it doesn’t mean anything. Sadly in this day and age, social media and the push to teach, teach, teach and to gain these skills, you see, you see it now they’re breaking down what you can earn in a day.
Karen: Now, I’m sorry, but it takes a lot of time. I e and experience and, and what you have under your belt i.e. time and experience, in order to earn that sort of money, you’re not gonna come into the industry and pack out a 12 hour day as I do. You are not; it’s a fact. And I’m very honest with the people who approached me to ask about training. Now, on reflection of that, obviously, training was a big part of what I offer in my academy. I have completely stopped any foundation training. Now that’s a massive statement to make from someone who put years into qualifying as a teacher. I have stopped that type of training because the market to me is laughable at the moment. It’s not, it’s frustrating, and it’s disgusting, and it’s literally bringing the, bringing the industry to its knees. But I will not teach because people are wanting to come into the industry.
I dunno how many times I read a week. I’ll go into aesthetics, you know, it is definitely what you should be doing. It’s easy money. No, it’s not. And it shouldn’t be. And the course shouldn’t be easy. And neither should the qualification. You shouldn’t be attending, you know, a day course or a two-day course and come out qualified and be given your certificate. You know, when I trained, I had to send in my case studies, and if some of them weren’t good enough, they got sent back, you know, and, and have re have a look at this, maybe try injecting from this angle. And that is learning, and that is learning along the way. And you know, certainly when I, when I was in my course, I, yes, alright, I was, I was lucky. I was lucky as far as I had loads of models, but I also invested in one-to-one, which is something I’m a massive advocate for with my master classes.
Karen: I had 22 models when I did my filler course. Now we are getting ladies on the complication course with our doctor saying they’ve done a quarter of a lip, a quarter of a lip, and they’re injecting faces like it worries me. And, they’re not the people that they haven’t; they haven’t tried to cut corners, but sadly because of the poor training, it starts from there, doesn’t it? Yeah. So, they’ve poorly been trained by someone they saw and respected as actually you could get some good training here, start a career, and they’ve been let down, and now the support network isn’t there. And that’s where this massive sea of uneducated people come from, I guess <laugh>.
Dawn: Yeah, it is really sad to hear that some, I think it’s almost like false promises from um, like yeah, that kind of academies. I mean, obviously you, just to clarify, not, not all academies are like this. There are actually some really good ones out there.
And you know, the, I know good ones are, and I know bad ones are, and you know, so, and unfortunately with like social media as long as like too good to be true and you get a bit hoodwinked and, so I think I, the main takeaway from that I think is just advice to any listeners is to definitely do a lot of research into any, um, any academy before you kind of invest into that investment into yourself in your career. ’cause you know, if unfortunately if you pick the wrong one, you could lose relatively a lot of money or just get off on the wrong foot. Like you were saying, you know, at the very beginning, it could kind of go awry, and that’s it. You’re not; it’s; it just keeps on going wrong from now. You literally haven’t had, you know, on-hand training with a model. You’re not going to go into your clinic and be confident you’re not, you know, uh, there’s always that element of, um, respect for what you do in the needle. I still have that today. And I think as soon as you lose that level of respect for what you are actually doing or you don’t have the knowledge to have that respect, we have ladies that are like, I didn’t even know I could cause a complication.
Karen: <laugh>. Yeah. That’s worrying. Yeah. It was like, you know, um, it was very much, it course was very much like, oh yeah, go on and go on and babe try this da dah. And I’m the worst one. Everyone’s hun in my clinic. Like, I can’t help that. Oh, hi hun. Yeah. Da da. Yeah. And it’s just how I am. But actually, from an education point, you know, oh yeah. If you just nip off ’cause you’ve just done your two injections in that lip, like, oh, don’t, don’t do it and don’t get hoodwinked by them. Yeah. Because there’s got to me, all I can see coming when this legislation does roll out is an uber amount of court cases for people who have been badly trained. People who have, you know, these, these academies know they know, knows <laugh>, they know this is coming, but they’re still pushing the education.
They’re still pushing these courses that probably aren’t insurable or won’t be insurable for much longer. And that’s what these people need to be looking at. And I think the C of trainees is also sad ’cause of the bounce back loans people have never had access to money as easily as they have now. Fact because otherwise, where has this money come from to train in aesthetics? It takes thousands and thousands and thousands. And I think I’ve mentioned before, you know, my, my training myself is now tipping, tipping the, the scale if you like, at 98,000 pounds, not a thousand or you know, three grand bounce back loan. Yeah, you can start there, but you need to continuously upgrade your knowledge. So, you know, bounce-back loans and COVID-19, yes, it hit us hard as companies, but the sea of rubbish out there now is horrendous, and it’s reflective in the market. Because I think people are starting to sit back and go, hang on a minute, what? No, no, maybe I shouldn’t use that practitioner. Why are they so cheap? Who knows?
What do you recommend for people getting into an Aesthetic role? What they can do to get off on the right foot?
Karen: Yeah, that’s a very good question. I would say, and I’ve actually said this ’cause people are like Karen, I can’t think of anyone else to ask better is gonna be bluntly honest. And if that’s what I’m known for, honestly, that’s great. I’ll take that. I would say be very, very wary because I feel with the sea of practitioners that have flooded the market thanks to the bounce back loans, I feel very shortly that’s gonna be the cutoff point start of COVID. Anyone who started in that time is gonna be looking at further education or not practising until they’ve had that to that level. That’s my thought. I haven’t seen it anywhere. I just know the legislation is being pushed through right now for stuff, for all of this madness to be stopped. So I would say before investing your money, if I hadn’t trained up until now personally, would I be investing money in this industry? No, no. I have seen 10-plus practitioners leave and go back to their day jobs or whatever they were doing pre-injecting because they’ve had one lip cline in three months.
That’s the honest reality of what we’re looking at at the moment in this industry for practitioners who haven’t been going very long. So I would really be looking at, actually, do I have the client base already? Are they then going to trust me to go from whatever they’re going from into injectables? Ask you if you can seriously tick off all of these boxes and think, yeah, do you know what? I’m gonna make a really good business for this, then do so. If you’ve got one doubt about any one of those tick boxes, don’t do it. Because I tell you now, it will not work. It is hard. It is a hard market, and the industry itself is very, very hard at the moment. I think it’s gonna turn around when obviously this legislation comes in; for me, it’s amazing because the people that shouldn’t be doing it won’t be, and then the practitioners can get back to doing what they’re meant to be doing. So for me, it’s all positive, but if I were investing now, I would probably not.
Dawn: Fair enough. And it’s good to have an honest answer, especially with what’s going on currently. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> I think as well. Would you recommend, you know, if, if someone’s looking to get into beauty as a whole, maybe to almost have like a fallback, um, kind of skill or trade? Uh, so for example, you know, if you are, um, looking to go into aesthetics and, but you are currently maybe doing hairdressing or something, or maybe you’re just doing basic makeup, would you recommend just having like another skill in the bag or just stick to that skill before you go off to aesthetics? If that makes sense? It’s,
Karen: I know so many businessmen and women who are incredible at what they do. Makeup artists, hair artists, and these people are charging serious money, rightly so, for their amazing skill. Yeah. The blindness at the moment to the only place you’re gonna make money is aesthetics is insane to me. But again, it’s coming from social media; it’s coming from the celebs doing it, dah, dah, dah, dah. So just have a bit of a thought process. You know, if I specialize in what I love doing, say it is hair, can I parallel? You know, that sort of salary for myself. If you specialize in anything enough, you can make a living and make an incredible career from it. That’s a fact. So what I would be saying is don’t necessarily look into needles yet. Would I have a backup plan? I don’t have a backup plan.
I’m always plan A, and that’s how I run my business, that I’m focused. When stuff is harder, it’s harder at the moment. I changed the game, and I have changed the way that I’m running my business at the moment, and it’s working really well for me. So would I have a backup plan? No. Should other people have a backup plan? Know where you are heading with it? I’d say it’s more about having a focus than a backup plan. If this doesn’t go to plan and you get one lid in three months, what are you gonna do? You’ve still got overheads, you’ve still got, you know, well, hopefully, you haven’t got overheads. I didn’t have overheads when I started. Everyone seems to be jumping in and buying clinics with no clue behind it. Mm. That, to me, is insane. I had a client base before I had it before I had overhead to the clinic, and that was three years deep.
Karen: And this is the madness is people see people who’ve been going for years, and they’re like, oh, I want a clinic. That’d be easy. That won’t, and we’ll, we’ll see. You come, and you’ll go. Yeah. Like it’s, it’s, it’s just facts. And I, I love giving advice when people come and they ask me about different things. I love being honest and giving advice because it’s something that a lot of people just don’t see sometimes. Mm-hmm. And it’s just having that open opinion. I don’t mind whether you’re going into aesthetics or not. I don’t mind if you’re going to do hairdressing or not. It doesn’t affect me or my career or my life. So me being honest is just exactly that. It’s me being honest. So, you know, for me, I don’t have a backup plan. Always go plan, stay focused and change the game. If you’re doing it wrong, change the game. Yeah. Yeah. That would be my,
Dawn: No, that’s completely fair. Have you got any other bits you wanna add? ’cause I think we’ve run through my questions very, very quickly.
Karen: Not really. I mean, I just can’t get across enough how passionate I am about this whole thing changing. I am buzzing for it. And the reason I’m not scared is that I’ve continuously invested, and I’m happy to do so more basically. Um, and what I can see is this huge sea of mess that’s going on at the moment. It’s very quickly gonna dissipate, and the specialists are gonna be left to do what we do. So to me, it’s a massive positive <laugh>.
If you like to specialize, you’re more than welcome to have a chat with me about my master classes. But again, I’ve dropped that. I do that minimally. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Now that may sound insane, but literally, when people inquire about a masterclass with me, I interview them; I want to know what they’ve done. I want to know how good they’re already. ’cause a masterclass that is tweaking fine, tweaking a skill, it’s not starting from basics because you’ve done a quarter of a lip. So yeah, that’s all I have to say, really. <laugh>.
Dawn: That’s fair. And it’s been really refreshing and interesting to hear it from a practitioner’s, uh, perspective as well. I know there’s, um, you see, there’s a lot going on and a lot of thinking, umm in an eye. So it’s kind of, it’s kind of nice just to hear it, and also hopefully it can help listeners either make a decision or, or even just that they’re a bit more aware of it because maybe some people don’t know too much about it if they haven’t been told by their trainers or, you know, any work colleagues so to speak mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So hopefully, this episode will be really useful to them. <laugh>,
Karen: Hold onto your seats for the court cases, guys. <laugh> is all I’m saying. <laugh>.
Dawn: Yeah, I agree. I think definitely there’ll be some court cases against, unfortunately, the not-so-great academies and stuff like that. So it’ll be kind of interesting to see what happens.
Karen: All academies right now know what’s going on. Mm. That’s a fact what they’re doing about it. That’s the difference between a good academy and a bad one.
Dawn: Yeah, that’s fair enough. <laugh>. Well, thank you so much for coming on again for us. It has been really interesting to No, I can probably speak a bit more about the nitty gritty stuff.